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Anarc/Tsahik
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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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So, Pandaria is coming and the officers have decided to make some changes to the loot and dkp system. Here are our ideas:


1. The dkp tables are going to be completely reset following the release of mists, everyone will have a clean slate.


This one is not up for discussion, this is going to happen like with all previous expansions.

2. The 30 second overall bid timer will be removed and bidding will not end until everyone involved in the bidding has bid as much as they want(or as much as they can!)

This change is mainly remove the risk of sniping bidding, as issues about this have arisen in the past. As far as i'm concerned, bidding is about how much people are willing to pay for an item - not how fast they can get the last bid in.

3. All characters will receive a dkp bonus for their first kill of any boss in new content regardless of how many times we have killed said boss as a guild.

This is simply to ensure that people who do miss out on the progress kills because they are not chosen or cannot raid on certain nights are not missing out on the bonus dkp.

4. No characters will be linked on the dkp tables. Alts will earn dkp for boss kills they participate in and will be able to spend dkp on gear for that character and that character only.

The reasons for this change will become apparent after you read No.5.

5. There will be no priority difference between 'alts' and 'mains' when it comes to bidding on gear.

The idea behind 4 and 5 is that in Mists we want to be able to have second run which capable of keeping up with the first run in terms of progress and boss kills. Therefore we need plenty of capable alts which are getting gear and raiding with the guild regularly(hopefully). Having mains in a group with alts with priority on gear will have a huge impact on alts gearing up for that second group.

As I said at the start of this post, aside from No.1, these are all simply IDEAS. Don't take any of them as set in stone.

I want as many people as possible to read this post and give thoughts and feelings on these proposals and any ideas you might have yourselves and want to share.

Roll Credits.


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Karamaryllis
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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Where is the "Like" button ?


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Dodgetank
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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Agree on kara there, I like these rules! As I dont have always time to raid and such, and when I could raid (as in FL) I needed to come with my healer or dps since my warrior wasnt geared or had a better tank for the fights, I had no change to get loot on the alt since it was "main before alt"... This evens it up if u got like alts that most of the time need to come and mains!

Furthermore the thoughts behind the all the rules are clear, but I wonder how many ppl this post will read tho.. Think most ppl dont even know we got this forums up and running..

altho, I like the rules, good job officer team! Now let's play and finish up spine and deathwing heroic dont we?


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Timiel
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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Ha what a surprise!
Well done Anarchy, took you about two years to post on forums but you couldn't have done it better! :P

Agree with everything, especially with removing this bid timer as it's well annoying!


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LaseenXav
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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Seems like really good ideas to me.

One more thing that I would suggest is to have raid sign-ups end 30 min or so before we start the raid, so that officers have some time to decide what we are doing (and the raid setup) before we actually start.
Karamaryllis
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It would mean ppl will have to anticipate more and sign well in advance, something most fail at or cannot do for various reasons.
At the start of MoP signs will most likely be no problem, because everyone will sign and want a spot.
But the past has taught us that ppl are slackers by nature and even keep turning up in the middle of raidsetup asking if there was a spot - where the rule is clear on this : no signup, no inv and not here at 19:30 when raid inv starts also means no inv, unless the RLs/officers were given notice.
In the past we had to extend sign up time so ppl could still sign and we could still have a raid. I fear we will see this again in the future.
Still... good idea, Laseen and this maybe the next thing we have to look into before MoP.
For now only loot rules are being discussed.


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Bryxellence

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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Good rules, would still put a time restriction on the bidding though
to avoid ppl doing such a late bid that it starts discussions and to avoid hold ups of 10 mins in the raid because of ppl bidding with minimum increases and a long time in between.
The max time allowed should be liberal, 3-5 mins sounds good.
Also put some rule into writing that is made to avoid ppl placing bids after an item is awarded.

One more point, if u want alts geared, removing priority is great but removing the linking will undo that , as those Alts will have much less dkp to spend then. Linking will provide them with a greater dkp pool of which all ppls alts can benefit.

Hope this helps a bit in the decision making process wink


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Bryxilique




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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Hey again guys.

First I just want to say that it's great to see the forum actually being used somewhat actively again.

To Kara: Thanks for the feedback and I'm aware that it is a bit off topic and something that can be discussed later to MOP release. I'm just starting to get a bit frustrated with showing up at 7.30 and not ever having a raid start before 8.00 server time and needed to vent a bit :P

To Bry: I'm not sure whether gearing 'alts' is the intent of changing the loot rules here, and I think separate dkp is needed because it will prevents some big problems:

*) There is currently (and may continue to be in mists) a large difference in how much the "same" items cost for different classes. If you look at the people that currently have the most dkp in the guild you find 2 hunters and 2 warriors on top of the list.

1) People showing up with an alt they have never raided with, get carried through X amount of bosses and can spend dkp gathered on a main, which is even more of a problem because of the point I made in *).

2) The people who have to bid more on items on their main may need to bring alts to the 2nd run without bidding on anything in order to remain competitive for winning items on their main.

The time spent on bidding I something I also see as a potential problem with the new bidding system. With such as low minimum bid (10 currently regardless of the size of the current bid as you all know) bidding can end up taking a LONG time if people just continue to bid the minimum every time.

Having a max time allowed is one way to solve the problem, but it may end up with being essentially the same as the current system as people can wait until the end of the bidding and try to get the last bid.

Other ways to help alleviate this problem could be to
1) have a short timer for each bid (I'm thinking 5-10 seconds here).
2) Increase the minimum bid to be something like the highest of 10 or 10% of the current bid.

I also want to say that I have no experience with using our bidding add-on, so I wouldn't know whether these suggestions are even doable.

Wow, this ended up being a lot longer than I expected. One more thing I want to ask you is what happens if you sign and show up for a raid? Are you awarded some dkp for signing or do you get the full amount of dkp the raid gets? Also, which character would get this dkp?

Thanks for bearing with my excessively long post.
Karamaryllis
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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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:D
We do not intend to let the bidding keep us from raiding - it will end at some point.
We just want to give slow typers a chance to bid too and at the same time prevent sniper biddings.
Like in a real life auction the auctioneer will eventually strike with his undersized hammer (clearly a grey item tongue out ).
The bidder addon can still be helpfull. It's even a great tool if you are a slow typer, but now you can do more easily without it again.

The new system sees mains and alts as unique characters and each of those characters needs to earn dkp if they want gear. As Anarc mentioned this will allow ppl that raid on their alts regularly to gear up easier and prevent them from seeing a nice piece of loot go to mains that hardly ever raid - and at all times it's all still depending on the amount of dkp ppl are willing to spend.
This rule was made because sometimes we just need to bring alts to make a certain raid setup and those characters should not suffer from this.
It's not impossible that at one point alts will have more dkp than the mains or even better gear.

A set amount of DKP should be given to all who signed and were available at inv time but did not get a spot.
imo it should go to a character that was eligible for the raid to prevent (saved) characters from earning dkp twice in one week.


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Jamsterdam
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having been part of almost all of these ideas, i of course agree with them all. right now the whole setup thing is none existent as we have to fix things regarding on our signs.this would allow us to take a strong setup where required.

i would just like to clear one thing up, the whole alts situation;

- the idea is....EVERYONE HAS ONE ALT THAT CAN PLAY AS WELL AS THEIR MAIN. it will be as geared as your main and you should be able to pull the same dps/hps as your main character. anyone who isnt pulling their weight in that run will be asked to learn on their character more and maybe even replaced if it is really bad. WE WONT BE CARRYING ALTS.

there may be other runs for other alts during a week but the idea is to have only one character capable of the same as your "main".

DKP will be used in alt runs aswell as main runs.
Bryxellence

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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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I think that when raiding starts in mop u will have so many ppl returning and wanting to raid that u will not have much time for altruns, especially during progression as that will take like three raidnights per team the first few months.
So by the time the altruns will kick in we will be like a year in mop.
before that only a few ppl will have been playing their alts in raids and will have a huge amount of dkp more then alts who r just starting to raid.
DKP differences will always be there, especially with the pure dps-classes as they do not have much need for an entirely different gearset.
And ppl with lots of alts will probly have less dkp then ppl who raid with only one toon.
But tbh, whatever which system u use, there will always be pros and cons to consider and the decisions will always depend on the priorities the officers have decided upon to address.


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Bryxilique




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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Jamsterdam wrote:
having been part of almost all of these ideas, i of course agree with them all. right now the whole setup thing is none existent as we have to fix things regarding on our signs.this would allow us to take a strong setup where required.

i would just like to clear one thing up, the whole alts situation;

- the idea is....EVERYONE HAS ONE ALT THAT CAN PLAY AS WELL AS THEIR MAIN. it will be as geared as your main and you should be able to pull the same dps/hps as your main character. anyone who isnt pulling their weight in that run will be asked to learn on their character more and maybe even replaced if it is really bad. WE WONT BE CARRYING ALTS.

there may be other runs for other alts during a week but the idea is to have only one character capable of the same as your "main".

DKP will be used in alt runs aswell as main runs.


I think I speak for everyone when I say, stfu Jam!
Ondin

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re: re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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I like the whole idea of changing the loot rules and removing the time for bid. So good job for this.
Air_
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re: Mists of Pandaria Loot Rules

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Hi all!

Before changing loot rules-have you checked how looting was going to change in Pandaria?I was under impresion that they are going to do something in style that all pll roll then
winner/s of rolles get drops for their class/role making all loot systems absolete or was it just for LFR?
Ondin

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Air ,master loot is the same. Lfr loot system will be changed.
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